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Common Sense To Prevail on Climate Change

I attended a meeting at Roma in Southern Queensland just a couple days ago and a professor Bob Brown provided the meeting with evidenvce that overturns the now entrenched opinion of much of our community that climate change is happening and is caused by man, in particular CO2.

For the past couple days I have not been able to remove from my mind the graph which shows that the earth has for the past 11 years been cooling. The graph was produced at the beginning of the climate change fiasco and showed in particular how the models, all eight of them had predicted a rising temperature and as a result caused pannick in the community, rural as well.

However the fact that the same graph overlaiid with the actual numbers showed a divergence away from the predictions to the South, in fact showing a cooling of the earths temperatute for the last 11 years while coincedently the use of co2 has risen completely turns the issue upside down.

The eveidence is that there is no man made cliamte change. Our leaders must move to reflect the truth!!

Rowell Walton

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Rowell Walton on October 14, 2009 at 10:55am

Sorry for the errors, just woke this am and thought...if everybody has the same infomation, the current direction is madness...even the Greens surely are interested in empiracle data to support policy...rw

Permalink Reply by Ray Jamieson on October 14, 2009 at 11:32am

Good morning Rowell,
I attended a meeting with Steven Ciobo last night and blogged it HERE.

I asked that question also, and the answers from Steven Ciobo, a coalition member and shadow minister for small business, really surprised me. To the effect that they have to follow the party line on policy, regardless of the sense or appropriateness of the policy AND regardless of their own feelings on the issue!

In other words, if an individual member of the party (Wilson Tuckey for example) disagrees, then his sin is not in disagreeing, it's in being public about it! Where is the ethics in that?

However, unless the Barnabies and Wilsons of the parliament express themselves openly, what lead is being given to the voting public who would otherwise think all is well in fairyland, because all our Pollies are saying the same thing? Steven Ciobo sensed my fury when he made that remark and recoiled from me, without me saying a word initially. However, it only serves to reinforce to me, the value of the independence of sites such as Political Guts and Agmates, where the truth is OK to be discussed openly and without recrimination!

The sad part of all this is that even if we publish the "truth" as you suggest, stupid party rules prevent the party politicians from acting on it even when it is in ours and the nation's best interest!

Ray Jamieson

Permalink Reply by Roger Rankin Crook on October 14, 2009 at 12:55pm

Not sure about that, Rowell.

Winston Spencer Churchill said of Stanley Baldwin, 'He occasionally stumbled over the truth, but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing had happened.'

Permalink Reply by Rowell Walton on October 15, 2009 at 6:45am

Greens have got brains people and I'll bet if the infomation is provided to them all like we saw at Roma that many if not all will feel very uncomfortable. I know we are guests , but if we get deleted that in its self will say something, the real post will be Christines reply, and indication that she would like to meet with prof Bob...not Bob B! or maybe Bob would like to meet Pof Bob, ahh doesent Freud have a game with your brain. rw

Permalink Reply by Christopher Leeds on October 16, 2009 at 8:11pm

I know you are busy doing a good job , but Christine it would good if you would just occasionally participate in the discussions here as it is a good way of directly conecting with rural people in AUSTRALIA

Permalink Reply by Rowell Walton on October 21, 2009 at 6:50pm

I,m with you mate....perhaps just too hard.

Permalink Reply by Ray Jamieson on December 3, 2009 at 10:38am

Jim,
I'm no scientist either, but having studied this issue carefully and read hundreds, thousands, who knows how many reports from I really don't know how many sources from both sides, as Jeff says, without using GREEN BLINKERS, common sense tells us that there is a lot of evidence against AGW.

To start with, our planet hosts carbon based organisms, including every living plant and animal. We all decompose to carbon. Unless we were a rock to begin with. That is the very basis of our existence. We can't bury carbon and hope to solve the problem, because it really isn't one! With CO2 at such a tiny proportion of our atmosphere, and lower now than at other recorded times in history, with temperatures lower now than at previous recorded times in history, with those temperatures falling, not rising, I put that there is enough evidence to suggest that not all is as it seems in the global warming/climate change camp and their arguments leave much to be desired. Add to that the appearance of some alarming emails, although hacked, about changing the IPCC data to deliberately create global warming alarm, and a very interesting money trail emerging involving both the Gore camp and the research grants to global warming scientists, I think we can say there is a certain amount of discredit surfacing about the Climate Change science.

If you would care to look through some of the hundreds or thousands of hours of research i have done, check out my own website POLITICAL GUTS at http://www.politicalguts.com/id6.html and at the bottom of that page you will find some links that could take a lifetime of reading on this very matter.

However, you will need clear reading glasses for them. Green or rosy coloured will not do.
Ray Jamieson

Permalink Reply by Ray Jamieson on December 3, 2009 at 10:41am

DITTO! I'm waiting with bated breath... Can't hold on much longer, but at least I'm not polluting while I'm doing it!

Permalink Reply by Ray Jamieson on December 3, 2009 at 11:30am

Jim,
IPCC? Wasn't that the organisation that just had it's credibility shredded with some emails that came to light? OK.. Maybe you need to broaden your research efforts. Nothing personal, but their research was tainted a long time ago with numerous reports, one of which is prominent on my website, but the hacked emails recently, and the resignation since then of one of the perpetrators suggests that the IPCC may have suffered irreparable damage as far as a credible source of scientific information goes.

As for leaving carbon in the ground, that carbon is growing out of the ground in every tree, blade of grass, each one takes in CO2 and sends out oxygen, while creating a carbon sink in the plant that grows. Almost every living animal relies directly on it for survival.. When these plants and animals die, they decompose back into carbon compounds again! We don't have a choice here Jim, this is the way the planet evolved over the last few billion years. I'm not suggesting we do anything with it, just reporting the facts about it!

Permalink Reply by Ray Jamieson on December 3, 2009 at 1:17pm

Oh Jim,
You seem to forget that volcanoes spew out far more carbon soot and other solids and gases into the atmosphere than humans could ever manage to. When I think of Pinutabo and Mount St Helens in recent years and the three volcanoes in South America right now that are spewing forth enough to see on Google Earth quite easily, far more than we could pump out, I realise how insignificant we are. And there are more. The Pacific Ocean is surrounded by the Pacific Ring Of Fire - wonder where it got that name! Not to say that man's influence is not there. But remember that the savannah grass fires across Northern Australia each year release more carbon soot into the atmosphere than the combined power stations of Australia. And they also occur naturally!

As for the polar melts and glaciers, look at the ocean current effects for the underlying cause, rather than atmospheric temperatures. Ice, sitting on warm water, melts. Physics 101. The arctic and antarctic winds are up to minus 50 degrees C, before you add the chill factor, so the glaciers and ice packs are not melting from on top, and no man is about to change the direction or the temperature of the ocean currents underneath.

If you look at Greenland and wonder why a very large icebrick was called Greenland, a thousand years ago, it was fertile farmland. Hmmm! And now some glaciers there are melting faster this year maybe? Most of the locals are actually happy about it. But they know that if the very real Global Coling trends continue, their summers will remain short for a very long time to come still. If we go back 20,000 years, we know that the ice packs extended way down through France, across central and southern Europe, right across the northern hemisphere.

Climate change is real, but it's bigger than us, and the best we can do is to learn about it, understand it, follow the trends and do what man has learned to do over the last 10,000 years, adapt to the changes. The small amount of our own contribution to the changes is being scientifically measured in many ways and the more we learn, and the more we observe nature and the earth in action, the more we realise we are a small bit player in this very large game.

That's not to say we can't do our bit to keep the earth, or which we have a limited custodianship, in the best condition possible. When you get to Political Guts Jim, you'll see there are policies there that the sooner they are enacted, the sooner we will have clean water, cleaner air, growing fish stocks in a cleaner ocean, and healthier grandchildren. But we just won't have an ETS or a CPRS to tax us out of the financial capacity to implement the changes necessary to be true custodians of the planet!
Ray Jamieson

Permalink Reply by Rob Moore on December 3, 2009 at 2:29pm

Crime?! You wouldn't be referring to East Anglia as I thought that was a whistleblower from within that had had a gutfull of the whole scam!

Permalink Reply by Ray Jamieson on December 3, 2009 at 3:32pm

Hey Jim,
If you are a real researcher, check the true hockey stick for temperatures. It looks like the original Gore model, upside down.

Why is the current warm? Check out the Gulf Stream current for a well documented example, and then apply what you learn to every other current on the planet. An immense body of water circulating the Atlantic at a few KMH, taking warm water north along the upper depths of the ocean and then dropping down to the much deeper levels with cooler water in the arctic for the trip back. Why does it do it? I was very young when it started, but you might like to think of it as a weather system, I could imagine, with the tropical warm waters circulating to the cold polar regions. And we don't want to stop the current either, as they distribute nutrients to the marine life all around the globe. It's unfortunate for some that the warm currents melt the end off the glaciers as they poke out into the ocean, but that's the way Mother nature works! It's called CALVING I think. Been happening for a little while now, remember the Titanic? Great movie. Had an iceberg in it. Back before global warming was an issue. Was happening before then too.

I checked out the Copenhagen link you gave us. Jim, it's all climate model predictions! Mate, I expected more from you! What's to answer? It's what a computer, programmed by an IPCC "scientist" has predicted COULD happen in the future! And we saw from the email scandal that the guys are not above fudging the figures... How could we believe their predictions after that?

And when you add to that the FACT that the temperatures around the globe have fallen since the turn of the century, by about as much as they were predicted by these models to rise, well, I'm probably wasting ink here...!

By the way, I am curious, what DO you do over in WA?
Ray Jamieson