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Permalink Reply by Dr Caroline Wright on July 26, 2012 at 8:27am

Well Bob .... You sure know how to wake someone up literally. Why are our young people so angry? Why do they lash out so violently at others?

I am not a football fan but I sometimes see it on the News and I am astounded that these people who are seen as role models by our youth so intentionally aim to and do cause injury to others. The head and neck seem to be the areas they aim for. I have heard the excuse that these things do happen in the heat of the moment in sport. No they do not. It is intentional and can be deadly.

It is in the home and in the school and the individuals within the groups and/or gangs that this mentality is fostered. How many times have we heard the saying 'If someone hits you, don't cry, hit them back'? That is where it starts because it is saying that to hit another is OK. It is not.

So the solution is within the individual, the family, the school, in our role models and in the groups that we form where change needs to occur and all these groups need to be involved in helping to change this situation where we do damage to others.Peer pressure can be a very positive element but also it can have damaging and deadly outcomes for individuals and families as well. Alcohol and drugs are not always involved and for some reason it is in the Aussie male psyche for some reason.

Thanks Bob for the wake-up call.

Fond regards

Caroline 

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Permalink Reply by Bob Stewart on July 26, 2012 at 8:51am

I'm so angry at politicians this morning Caroline and I'm an old man. Anger is not exclusive to the young who express it in their own ways. But when we get old, (sorry, I mean me.You appear ageless!) it is the mind that considers the outcome. Words have consequences and the written word doubly so and where other avenues are controlled it is our social media that will act as The Fifth Column for us.

Dr Caroline Wright said:

Well Bob .... You sure know how to wake someone up literally. Why are our young people so angry? Why do they lash out so violently at others?

I am not a football fan but I sometimes see it on the News and I am astounded that these people who are seen as role models by our youth so intentionally aim to and do cause injury to others. The head and neck seem to be the areas they aim for. I have heard the excuse that these things do happen in the heat of the moment in sport. No they do not. It is intentional and can be deadly.

It is in the home and in the school and the individuals within the groups and/or gangs that this mentality is fostered. How many times have we heard the saying 'If someone hits you, don't cry, hit them back'? That is where it starts because it is saying that to hit another is OK. It is not.

So the solution is within the individual, the family, the school, in our role models and in the groups that we form where change needs to occur and all these groups need to be involved in helping to change this situation where we do damage to others.Peer pressure can be a very positive element but also it can have damaging and deadly outcomes for individuals and families as well. Alcohol and drugs are not always involved and for some reason it is in the Aussie male psyche for some reason.

Thanks Bob for the wake-up call.

Fond regards

Caroline 

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Permalink Reply by Jan Courtney on July 26, 2012 at 9:37am

When parents opt out of their responsibilites , or have their right to discipline their children taken away from them, when socialist teachers are quick to inform students about their rights,  but neglect to mention the reponsibilities that go with rights,  when children can leave home  because they don't like their parents trying to discipline or imbue in them  a sense of responsibility and are able to access a government living away from home allowance ,  and when political correctness takes precedence over what is right and good, what else can we expect.

 

Then there is the added fact of the violence and lack of morals in the movies and TV programs they watch,  the video games they play and their seemingly unlimited and unchecked internet access,  an acceptance by many of their lack of respect, and the excuses made in the courts for their apalling behaviour.  Here in NSW in the last month there have been a number of very frail, elderly people beaten up and robbed in their own homes.   What heroes would do that ?????

 

Yes Bob,  I too am angry,  very angry

 

Where is it going to end ?????

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Stephen Cox on July 28, 2012 at 8:31am

Wow Bob just read this,I just replied to carolines discussion on Self harm and outlined the hows and whys of so much of this and where to start in fighting against this current though not Modern ailment of Society.

I have also covered solutions for our Aboriginal and Torres Strait islanders with similar issues under another of Cariolines Discussions that one relating to Defence,So much of what we discuss is interlinked on this site.

Viviennes discussion on Agenda 21 also fits into this Discussion as it encompasses how others from outside are actively contributing to these problems through Social Engineering.

 

In particular I have highlighted the Actions of the Nazi Party and the Hitler youth as I think it was the Socialist Blueprint that is being used to foster so many of these problems,When you research into it, be it Sport or Violence or Gang Mentality or Destruction of Family units The History books of that era show how they operate and in so doing show us how to counteract the influence of people who are just plain Evil.

I have in my Library Collection a book dedicated to the Timeframe of the Nazi party literally Day by Day from start to finish and it is an excellent recource for dates when researching what and whom and what policies were implimented to achieve whatever goals.

So much of that is relevant to the problems we witness today for the Left have tried it before,After all the NAZI party were the National Socialist Party a party of the Left not the Right as so many have painted them historically.

 

Read up on the Hitler Youth and then comparisons with what we see today become apparent and then you see who is responsible,The Kids are Victims of the Left and sadly many have become Victims of the Kids

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Permalink Reply by Martin Essenberg on July 28, 2012 at 7:19pm

Is violence today worse than it was?

In the 1960's I lived in Wollongong. I remember the fights between the bodgies and some other group whose name escapes me (senior moment happening)

I also remember the Serbian Soccer team captain getting gunned down in Port Kembla back then. Soccer is a serious sport after all.

meanwhile the Ustasha was training people and getting themselves photographed with the local Army reserve before heading off to shoot people in Yugoslavia.

In the 70's I was in the army reserv- didn't come across the Ustasha but one of my unit was suckered out of a bar and smashed up with a brick.

Bad things have always happened. Its not nice that some-one gets King hit and dies.The media will always sensationalise everything. I  personally think we live in a better place today than it has been in the near past.

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Permalink Reply by Rory Donnellan on July 28, 2012 at 9:32pm

Stephen, you make some interesting comments about modern social engineering including comparisons with Hitler youth.

 

Stephen Cox said:

Wow Bob just read this,I just replied to carolines discussion on Self harm and outlined the hows and whys of so much of this and where to start in fighting against this current though not Modern ailment of Society.

I have also covered solutions for our Aboriginal and Torres Strait islanders with similar issues under another of Cariolines Discussions that one relating to Defence,So much of what we discuss is interlinked on this site.

Viviennes discussion on Agenda 21 also fits into this Discussion as it encompasses how others from outside are actively contributing to these problems through Social Engineering.

 

In particular I have highlighted the Actions of the Nazi Party and the Hitler youth as I think it was the Socialist Blueprint that is being used to foster so many of these problems,When you research into it, be it Sport or Violence or Gang Mentality or Destruction of Family units The History books of that era show how they operate and in so doing show us how to counteract the influence of people who are just plain Evil.

I have in my Library Collection a book dedicated to the Timeframe of the Nazi party literally Day by Day from start to finish and it is an excellent recource for dates when researching what and whom and what policies were implimented to achieve whatever goals.

So much of that is relevant to the problems we witness today for the Left have tried it before,After all the NAZI party were the National Socialist Party a party of the Left not the Right as so many have painted them historically.

 

Read up on the Hitler Youth and then comparisons with what we see today become apparent and then you see who is responsible,The Kids are Victims of the Left and sadly many have become Victims of the Kids

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Permalink Reply by Dr Caroline Wright on July 29, 2012 at 10:27am

Martin ... Was it the 'Bodgies'' and the Widgies'?

Martin Essenberg said:

Is violence today worse than it was?

In the 1960's I lived in Wollongong. I remember the fights between the bodgies and some other group whose name escapes me (senior moment happening)

I also remember the Serbian Soccer team captain getting gunned down in Port Kembla back then. Soccer is a serious sport after all.

meanwhile the Ustasha was training people and getting themselves photographed with the local Army reserve before heading off to shoot people in Yugoslavia.

In the 70's I was in the army reserv- didn't come across the Ustasha but one of my unit was suckered out of a bar and smashed up with a brick.

Bad things have always happened. Its not nice that some-one gets King hit and dies.The media will always sensationalise everything. I  personally think we live in a better place today than it has been in the near past.

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Permalink Reply by Jan Courtney on July 29, 2012 at 2:46pm

The Bodgies and Widgies -  MY generation !!!!!

 

The Widgies were the female equivalent of Bodgies,  and we "Naice" girls regarded them with a mixture of fear, fascination and a tiny pinch of awed envy.  Such tight skirts and flatties and short, short hair.

 

At the same time there were the Beatniks, who tended to inhabit rather dark basements, drink cheap wine and indulge in terribly pretentious (awful) poetry.

 

I'm not sure what the fellows who wore pegged pants and pointed shoes (winkle pickers) were called.

 

Then I think came the Mods and Rockers  and following them if my memory serves me correctly, The Sharpies.

 

These are my memories, so as my forgetter is getting better and my rememberer is broke,  I will happily stand corrected by some of the other "more mature" contributers.

 

But Martin,  I think we lived in a better place then rather than now.  I know there were tensions between certain ethnic groups.,  just as there are now, and have been almost since the post war immigration began. But even the Bodgies, Mods etc had respect, albeit mixed with severe dislike, for authority and the police.  The also respected those of us who were not part of their culture, provided we did not belittle them.  

 

I don't think I ever remember an 80+ or 90 year old woman or man being robbed, let alone had their home broken into and being bashed and worse in the 50's, 60',70's or so.

 

Nor was it necessary for hotels to have to use plastic drinking vessels because of the glassing that has become so common. 

 

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Martin Essenberg on July 29, 2012 at 7:55pm

If the Widgies were all girls then who were the Bodgies fighting back then? Were the Mods and Rockers fighting?

I was a volunteer in the 70's at a drop in centre for druggies. I saw them injecting heroin. I knew one who died. Did the media notice? When convenient. I am sure there was a lot more happening than we realise back then that just never got reported.

I can't think of anything that happened in Australia except the Bogle/Chandler deaths but I remember the Vietnam war era. We were the "good guys" and the media portrayed us as that- just as they do in Afghanistan. It was only later that it was found out that the US had assassination teams out that killed possibly 50,000 people. Extra-judicial killings done on the rumour that a person might be "ënemy". This war these people are just colateral damage- but Wikileaks might just put out footage of the murders. http://collateralmurder.com/

These days with internet and mobile phone videos and CCTV lots of things that got covered up now get media coverage. A fellow in Australia was recently removed from a bus and tasered by Police. The Police story was that he was resisting arrest. The mobile phone videos with sound showed a different story. Back in the 70's verballing by the Police was an accepted activity. OK unless you are the victim. Recently a man on the Gold Coast claimed he was beaten up by Police- a claim they denied until the CCTV footage was released.

What we had in the old days was cover ups by the media and authorities. The populace was kept ignorant and we got to think they were "the good old days" Chances are for a lot of people they were not good at all and no one noticed. Now we get some of the truth and are scared when things are actually better

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Permalink Reply by Martin Essenberg on July 30, 2012 at 7:19pm

The bottom line for a company is simply profit or loss. Does this apply to people and society?

Last week a local here got king hit in a pub. He is out of hospital now- alive

Are pubs sacred institutions? Perhaps people who don't want to be assaulted should stop going to pubs and clubs and like places. And if they choose to go to such places- should I care if they get into trouble?

As to thugs in pubs- who are they? Are they foreigners or locals? Why isn't there enough security in these venues. I certainly wouldn't go there.

 

As to too many people- whose fault is that? The major parties have been foisting immigration on us for decades. You wouldn't have had to put up with me on this site if the UK based people of 1950's Australia had spat the dummy when all those european immigrants like my father turned up.

 

Not all immigrants are bad. The Ibrahims live about 4 houses from my sister. People shooting up the Ibrahims probably don't want to shoot my family but while we import such people it creates a risk.

Last month I had to find the Brisbane Council office in George st Brisbane. Got off the bus at King George Square and took the wrong exit and was lost. I asked an obviously middle eastern young fellow where George st was. He didn't know but using his phone brought up maps and enthusiastically gave me directions.
So as individuals they may be nice but Pauline should have been heeded when she brought up the issue.  WE have the right to choose NOT to have immigration but the major parties won't listen

 

 

 

 
alan mikkelsen said:

So Martin, what's the bottom line? There are a lot more people now than there were then, so that means there are a lot more bad people. And, good people I would think. or, hope. Bradley Manning and Wikileaks? Aurora Colorado? Gun Totin' Vigilantes??

Cheers  bro' al

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Permalink Reply by Stephen Cox on July 30, 2012 at 8:12pm

Martin you are so right about nice individuals,Bt just about every group people have brought up are symbolic of one thing,What I term "Tribalism".

Mods Vs Rockers,Sharps Vs Skinheads,Bodgies Vs Westies ,Shia Vs Sunni, Indian Vs Pakistani,Croat Vs Serb all are symbolic of Tribalism and it does not have to be Ethnic,Religious,Social Standing,Skin Colour or even Home turf or it can be any or all of the above because it embodies a Mentality.

 

Earlier I mentioned the Hitler Youth here are some examples of how they "Indoctrinated" the young

 

They used Sport as it appealed to the youth of the day as it does today,It also allowed Adults other than family to influence Children when young and impressionable.

 

Family values and structures were under attack this in the end led to children even betraying friends and family.

As they gained more and more control they upped the ante with Rhetoric,Parades and other government organised functions designed for Children that continued to isolate them from traditional family guidance

 

Then they used the education system to it's full capabilities to spread the lies and reinforce the Nazi message.

 

They took advantage of a natural tendency of children wishing to be included not shut out,wanting to participate in activities that seemed Fun and exciting,they used natural inquisitveness of the young as a weapon against both them ultimately and the families who could have saved the Children had they realised what was happening.

 

The more you read up on how the Nazi Party operated and how they controlled and manipulated through Religion ,Trade Unions ,Youth Camps, Financial Favours for those loyal to the party in business,Turning a blind eye to thugs and criminals but noting them as future usefull acolytes when terror tactics needed to be employed but Government wished to be in the background.

 

The more you study how they operated the more our modern problems in Society become Deja Vue,We have the blueprints of where they are headed for the world has been there before,We only have to read them and know when and how to act to change our destinies unless we wish to repeat the exercise.

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Martin Essenberg on July 31, 2012 at 7:35pm

The youth may be getting indoctinated in the schools but I hardly see a Hitler Youth being formed by government. The kids are becoming uncontrollable rather than controlled.

 

Our problem is the adults. Our rights are being removed but when any one challenges this they get ignored. I went to the high court twice in an attempt to prove that John Howards gun laws are illegal.

McHUGH J  But Parliament - some people would regard it as regrettable - can, in effect,
do what it likes. As it is said, some authorities could legislate to have every blue-eyed baby killed if it wanted to. Essenberg  v The Queen B54/1999 [2000] HCATrans 385 (22 June 2000)

So who cares? The criminals still have guns. Did the gun laws achieve anything? If the GOVERNMENT of BOTH parties has the right to remove our rights and no-one fights this then you will have to suffer the consequences.

 
Stephen Cox said:

Martin you are so right about nice individuals,Bt just about every group people have brought up are symbolic of one thing,What I term "Tribalism".

Mods Vs Rockers,Sharps Vs Skinheads,Bodgies Vs Westies ,Shia Vs Sunni, Indian Vs Pakistani,Croat Vs Serb all are symbolic of Tribalism and it does not have to be Ethnic,Religious,Social Standing,Skin Colour or even Home turf or it can be any or all of the above because it embodies a Mentality.

 

Earlier I mentioned the Hitler Youth here are some examples of how they "Indoctrinated" the young

 

They used Sport as it appealed to the youth of the day as it does today,It also allowed Adults other than family to influence Children when young and impressionable.

 

Family values and structures were under attack this in the end led to children even betraying friends and family.

As they gained more and more control they upped the ante with Rhetoric,Parades and other government organised functions designed for Children that continued to isolate them from traditional family guidance

 

Then they used the education system to it's full capabilities to spread the lies and reinforce the Nazi message.

 

They took advantage of a natural tendency of children wishing to be included not shut out,wanting to participate in activities that seemed Fun and exciting,they used natural inquisitveness of the young as a weapon against both them ultimately and the families who could have saved the Children had they realised what was happening.

 

The more you read up on how the Nazi Party operated and how they controlled and manipulated through Religion ,Trade Unions ,Youth Camps, Financial Favours for those loyal to the party in business,Turning a blind eye to thugs and criminals but noting them as future usefull acolytes when terror tactics needed to be employed but Government wished to be in the background.

 

The more you study how they operated the more our modern problems in Society become Deja Vue,We have the blueprints of where they are headed for the world has been there before,We only have to read them and know when and how to act to change our destinies unless we wish to repeat the exercise.

 

 

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