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Permalink Reply by Jan Courtney on August 4, 2012 at 9:50pm

Caroline - a gentle way to correct your topic heading:

A new monk arrives at the monastery. He is assigned to help the other monks in copying the old texts by hand. He notices, however, that they are copying copies, and not the original books.

So, the new monk goes to the head monk to ask him about this. He points out that if there was an error in the first copy, that error would be continued in all of the other copies. The head monk says, "We have been copying from the copies for centuries, but you make a good point, my son."

So, he goes down into the cellar with one of the copies to check it against the original. Hours later, nobody has seen him. So, one of the monks goes downstairs to look for him. He hears sobbing coming from the back of the cellar and finds the old monk leaning over one of the original books crying. He asks what's wrong.

"The word is celebrate not celibate," says the old monk with tears in his eyes.

 

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Permalink Reply by Dr Caroline Wright on August 4, 2012 at 10:02pm

Thanks Jan for looking after me.

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Permalink Reply by Jan Courtney on August 4, 2012 at 10:26pm

Why the predilection for the Catholic faith, it's priests and adherents ?

 

Yes we know there have been scandals about pedophile priests and shameful coverups by those in authority,  but these behaviours are not confined to Catholic priests, but are prevalent in all areas of society.  I for one, am sick to death of the "get the Catholic" mentality that seems to prevail lately.

 

I have been very involved in the parishes in which I have lived all my adult life - at least 50 years of it,  and I have not seen or heard of any impropriety, other than an occasional over indulgence in alcohol, in all that time;  and believe me,  if anything untoward had been happening, we would have known.  A Catholic parish is like a small English village - nothing escapes the self appointed "parish guardians of the truth". All of the priests whom I have known have been dedicated to their vows and are committed to ministering to their Parishes in the service of God.

 

Priests spend more than seven years studying before their ordination,  they know what is expected and are free to leave if they are unable to live up to the vows they will take at ordination.    End of Story.

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Dr Caroline Wright on August 4, 2012 at 10:45pm

It is not the intention of the discussion topic to 'get the Catholics' it is about priests in this religion being celibate not about what is happening in the Church which is adequately covered in another discussion.

It is not intended to offend any person of the religious persuasion otherwise I would not have commenced it.

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Permalink Reply by Jan Courtney on August 5, 2012 at 10:17am

The thing is Caroline,  priests in this particular religion knowingly and willingly take a vow of celibacy at their ordination after a long period of study,  so really there is nothing for others to discuss.

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Permalink Reply by Dr Caroline Wright on August 5, 2012 at 10:57am

If your prediction is accurate Jan then it will 'die a natural death'.

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Permalink Reply by Dr Caroline Wright on August 5, 2012 at 10:29pm

I have been thinking a lot about this issue of a priest being celibate since reading the article and it has raised some concerns for me.

The Article Itself

My immediate response was how fortunate the priesthood was to have such a man in its ranks for twenty years as he was greatly admired by his parishioners.

My next thought was that one cannot help falling in love when one meets the person of their dreams.

Having been legally married overseas and was having sexual relations with his wife then Father Kevin has broken his vows according to Church Law.

I find it difficult to accept that he then returned to his duties as a priest knowing that he was living a lie. His justification was to demonstrate how easy it was to lead a double life as a priest.

With the public as his audience he let Australia know what he had done and what was happening in the Church with homosexual and heterosexual sexual relationships and priests acting out their paedophilic tendencies. He had stated previously in the article that such priests were hypocrites yet he knowing joined their ranks for a 12 month period.

The Church's Stance on This Issue

If the oath of celibacy is important for priests then why is Father Kevin only deemed "irregular for sacrament" meaning he has lost his licence to give or receive communion. He can still perform the Mass ritual.

The Discussion Topic

If the answer to the question posed in this discussion topic is yes  then those priests who participate in sexual relations of any kind and/or get legally married then they should no longer be priests. In my opinion the Church should take a firm stand on this issue. This will result in a greater shortage of priests than there already are currently. 

If the answer to the question posed in this discussion topic is no (as celibacy for Catholic priests was not introduced until 600 AD, that is, it was Church Doctrine and Not Jesus Doctrine) then now would be the time to change the Rules of the Church so that the Church can grow and prosper.

The Catholic Church did not fall down when they changed the language of the Mass from Latin to English.

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Permalink Reply by Jan Courtney on August 6, 2012 at 8:25am

Reply by Dr Caroline Wright 21 hours ago

If your prediction is accurate Jan then it will 'die a natural death'.

 

 

Obviously Caroline,  you are not going to allow that to happen,  so perhaps before you go on with your apparent denigration of the Catholic Church you should acquaint yourself with the facts of the matter.

 

Celibacy and the Priesthood

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Fundamentalist attacks on priestly celibacy come in a number of different forms—not all compatible with one another. There is almost no other subject about which so many different confusions exist.

 

 http://www.catholic.com/tracts/celibacy-and-the-priesthood

 

Also another opinion :

 

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/Father-kevin-knew-the-rules-bef...

 

It is true that celibacy is not “natural”. It is “supernatural” and it only makes sense in the light of faith, with the understanding that heaven is our final destination. Father Kevin stated he did not leave the priesthood earlier to get married because he enjoyed being a priest.

 

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Dr Caroline Wright on August 11, 2012 at 10:57pm

Have been thinking some more on this question lately and the question arose in my mind that if Anglican priests are married and convert to Catholicism they may remain married while undertaking priestly duties. Would the same rule apply for a married Catholic man with a Doctor of Divinity who wanted to become a priest?

If a priest marries he cannot remain a priest but if an Anglican who is married becomes a Catholic he can continue to be a priest.

To my way of thinking the rule is not applied consistently. 

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