The genetic desire of a society is to perpetuate itself so that one's own genes survive and prosper into the forever future. 'Marriage' being the union between man and woman is the principle multiplier of the perpetuation of the society. "Marriage" between same sex couples achieves no purpose for the continuance of the society and can only lead to "equal" rights for same sex "marrieds' to adopt   children. Whilst I am aware of children being exposed to same sex relationships being forced upon some children by their bisexual and turned homosexual natural parents no society that wishes to perpetuate itself should entertain a view that same sex couples should have rights to adopt or foster others parentless children. Homosexuals who want the right to marry as man and women have can not expect to be 'equal' unless given the OK to apply to be included in the adoption process. What homosexuals want is to feel normal when there is nothing normal about homosexuality for a society that wants to successfully perpetuate itself.

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Gidday Merv, what about "Uniage"?

Good one Jan. Well said. I couldn't agree more. It is a never ending fight to uphold standards against those who can't, don't or won't. All that's needed for standards to fall is that good people do nothing.


Jan Courtney said:

The Madrid Declaration

Assembled in Madrid, Spain, this 27th Day of May, 2012, we delegates to The World Congress of Families VI reaffirm the truth that “the family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the state” (Article 16, The Universal Declaration of Human Rights). This natural family is inscribed in human nature and centers on the voluntary union of a man and a woman in the lifelong covenant of marriage. The institution of marriage foremost provides love and joy to the couple and is also aimed for the procreation and rearing of children. The marital union also offers security for them in times of trouble, the foundation for a society that balances order and liberty, and the binding of generations.

 

Alas, in our time, assaults on the natural family are growing in number and intensity. Ideologies of statism, atomistic individualism, and sexual revolution challenge the very essences of marriage and family. Recent legal and public policy changes have corrupted the meaning and dignity of marriage, devalued parenting, encouraged easy divorce and births outside of marriage, confused sexual identities, promoted promiscuity, created conditions that increased child abuse, isolated the elderly, and fostered depopulation. These changes were particularity acute in Europe in the last decades and, more specifically, in the nation of Spain during the years 2004-2011, when a radical government actually worked to subvert the natural family.

 

In response, The World Congress of Families VI endorses a set of principles to create a cultural and political environment that is compatible with life, liberty, and hope for the future:

  • We affirm that the natural family, not the individual, is the fundamental unit of society.
  • We affirm the natural family to be the union of a man and a woman through marriage for the purposes of sharing love and joy, propagating children, providing their moral education, building a vital home economy, offering security in times of trouble, and binding the generations.
  • We affirm that the natural family is a fixed aspect of the created order, one ingrained in human nature. The natural family cannot change into some new shape; nor can it be re-defined by eager social engineers.
  • We affirm that the natural family is the ideal, optimal, true family system. While we acknowledge varied living situations, all other “family forms” are incomplete or are mere fabrications of the state.
  • We affirm the marital union of a man and a woman to be the authentic sexual bond, the only one open to the natural and responsible creation of new life.
  • We affirm the sanctity of human life from conception to natural death; each newly conceived person holds rights to live, to grow, to be born, and to share a home with its natural parents bound by marriage. Abortion, euthanasia and all forms of manipulating human beings in their embryonic or fetal state are therefore attacks on human life.
  • We affirm that the natural family is prior to the state and that legitimate governments exist to shelter and encourage the natural family.
  • We affirm that the world is abundant in resources. The breakdown of the natural family and moral and political failure, not human “overpopulation”, account for poverty, starvation, and environmental decay.
  • We affirm that human aging and depopulation are the true demographic dangers facing the earth in this new century. Our societies need more people, not fewer.
  • We affirm that the natural family is the main source of social and economic prosperity and the main pillar on which to achieve the overcoming of the current world economic crisis.
  • We affirm that women and men are equal in dignity and innate human rights, but different in function. Even if sometimes thwarted by events beyond the individual’s control (or sometimes given up for a religious vocation), the calling of each boy is to become husband and father; the calling of each girl is to become wife and mother. Culture, law, and policy should take these differences into account.
  • We affirm that the complementarity of the sexes is a source of strength. Men and women exhibit profound biological and psychological differences. When united in marriage, though, the whole becomes greater then the sum of the parts.
  • We affirm the parents’ right to educate their children for their good with no interference from the state.
  • We affirm that every human being is entitled to religious freedom and that the political community must respect the freedom to profess one’s faith, to hand it on, and to raise one’s children in it.
  • We affirm the “family wage” ideal of “equal pay for equal family responsibility.” Compensation for work, taxation, and social insurance plans should reinforce natural family bonds.
  • We affirm the necessary role of private property in land, dwelling, and productive capital as the foundation of familial independence and the guarantor of democracy. In a just and good society, all families will hold real property.
  • And we affirm that lasting solutions to human problems, including the current economic crisis, rise out of families and small communities. They cannot be imposed by bureaucratic and judicial fiat. Nor can they be coerced by outside force.

 

Not that fussy on it james. I'm not sure that it is up to us to invent a word for it either. We never invented the deviation. It has been with humanity for a while and there have been quite a few words made up for aspects of it already. Some of our nice words have been already re-defined and spoiled because of it. As far as I know it's pretty much a "modern" phenomenon. I don't think you'll find it going on in primative tribes who are in some regards more natural than what we call civilisation.

 

Gidday Merv, what about "Uniage"?

 Hi to everyone. I’m going against the grain here. I think we all are experiencing many changes now, where the young do what they like to do, and not everyone can get along with opposite sex either, why not have it, the way they want, it’s their life to do whatever.  I say until you walk a long way in someone else shoes, shouldn’t criticize, My dad was holy than though man, kept all the traditions going, to the extent it harmed my half brother and sister hence they left home really early in life, I saw many times where they would be kick out, from things he didn’t like, and swore then no way would I do that to my kids no matter what, sure it’s hard to except, and yes its breaking all the traditional rules, But sure as hell wouldn’t want for anything awful to happen to that person to do harm to themselves either if they couldn't make it because they were a bit different, and just because I mighten like it.

 A relationship between same sex people, yes it’s unnatural but who are we to judge, as I’ve seen some horrible arguments between husband and wife, and yet some see same sex getting along beautiful.  I myself believe every child should have a mum and a dad a balance to round things off in a perfect world, yes that would be great, and yes like Merv said in some cultures their more for the natural side of it.  But unfortunately we are not in that world anymore, we in one where there is really big changes happening, and where in a world we have Men that love to dress as women and talk like a women, and the same as women talking and dressing like a man, couldn’t be help that’s the way they were born with too many hormones, Boy George was one,  the rio guy, he was gay, but things do need to change it’s a changing world and everyday people are coming out of out of the closet , whereas before or no taboo.  So at the end of the day if that’s what they want, and maybe their commitments’ just might be stronger than the opposite sex that get divorced within a few months of marriage or even just argue all the time and want to kill each other, and so their children are shuffled backwards and forwards caught in the middle, their is an awful lot of that going on now, so you can’t tell me that’s right either.

I’m a catholic, I was so lucky that I have been married 43 years, but too many marriages are breaking up now all around me, and who are we to stand in the way of a same sex marriage if it could be even stronger that a normal way of opposite sex, if two people are committed and feel strong about that.  I’m open to change as I saw my dad had very staunch catholic approach cause nothing but heartache to my half brother and sister.   We are not in a perfect world anymore.  And some are just born with more girly hormones and same for women, as I know of one, it makes it really hard for them through different stages of their life,  sometimes downright miserable, their entitled to have some sort of happiness, It’s not for me of course, and my children the same, but in some families it’s not and can be awful for them going through life like that. If one of my kids said to me to have the same sex marriage I wouldn’t stand in the way, too many folk are just splitting up for no reason after spending thousands on weddings its happening everywhere now.  So who are we to stand in the way of someone else’s happiness if there really taking their vows seriously and can’t make it with the opposite sex.

Hmm I'm might cope some flake here, wait till I get my helmet on.

cheerio

Barb

Hi to everyone. I’m going against the grain here. This is good because that is the point of having a forum.

I think we all are experiencing many changes now, where the young do what they like to do.

Is this not a result of incompetent parents? Parents who believe all this psychology clap trap of “letting them have their own way, and never saying no, no smacks and no naughty corners?”

 So are you for, no limits, no rules, and no discipline? This is of course anarchy. If they want to skip school, cheat, steal, bully others and take drugs this is all okay?

 and not everyone can get along with opposite sex either, why not have it, the way they want, it’s their life to do whatever. No it’s not. They have been granted a life because of us. A mother and a father brought them into this world. NOT two of the same sex. By virtue of what the couple did they have a responsibility to what they have done. The sex act has been separated and disconnected from its natural built-in purpose to something for amusement and entertainment. Which of course it can be. But if it didn’t have such a high powered physical reaction I doubt if anyone would be bothered with doing it if you took that thrill out of the act and just look at the motions clinically and coldly.

But I digress. The parents, having now brought a new living being into the world, have committed to raising that person. Every woman at the sight of her newly born has nothing but an overwhelming desire to care for and nurture her child.

It is only after a while when other problems of living arise that things turn sour.

 

I say until you walk a long way in someone else shoes, shouldn’t criticize, My dad was holy than though man, kept all the traditions going, to the extent it harmed my half brother and sister hence they left home really early in life, I saw many times where they would be kick out, from things he didn’t like, and swore then no way would I do that to my kids no matter what, sure it’s hard to except, and yes its breaking all the traditional rules, But sure as hell wouldn’t want for anything awful to happen to that person to do harm to themselves either if they couldn't make it because they were a bit different, and just because I mightn’t like it.

What do you mean by “traditional”?

If your dad had a “holier than thou” attitude that was his aberration not a tradition. It is not traditional to have an attitude that expels part of your own family without rational cause. Were they criminals?

 

 

 

A relationship between same sex people, yes it’s unnatural but who are we to judge.

Of course we are the, who to judge. We make judgments every minute of the day with every situation we face. We make the best decision and judgment based of our view, experience and understanding of the circumstance. This is how life works.

I’ve seen some horrible arguments between husband and wife, and yet some see same sex getting along beautiful. Yes, this is true. But you don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. The cause of conflict between couples has nothing to do with gender and can’t be used as an argument for one type of relationship or another. The cause of conflict between couples has to do with their knowledge and ability of handling relationships. If they don’t know how this works then they will never have a long term relationship with anybody.

For instance it is nowhere near well enough understood that a major cause of relationship upheaval is cheating and other types of hidden acts against the other person. Every time you are being charged with doing something by another that you know very well you are not, you can know for certain that the accuser is doing just that behind your back despite their denials.    

 

I myself believe every child should have a mum and a dad a balance to round things off in a perfect world, yes that would be great, and yes like Merv said in some cultures their more for the natural side of it. But unfortunately we are not in that world anymore, we in one where there is really big changes happening, and where in a world we have Men that love to dress as women and talk like a women, and the same as women talking and dressing like a man, couldn’t be help that’s the way they were born with too many hormones, Boy George was one, the rio guy, he was gay, but things do need to change it’s a changing world and everyday people are coming out of out of the closet , whereas before or no taboo. So at the end of the day if that’s what they want, and maybe their commitments’ just might be stronger than the opposite sex that get divorced within a few months of marriage or even just argue all the time and want to kill each other, and so their children are shuffled backwards and forwards caught in the middle, there is an awful lot of that going on now, so you can’t tell me that’s right either.

No of course it’s not right. But passing it off as some kind of new normal does nothing to arrest the decline. That is unless you are an anarchist and think all standards need to be abolished.

I’m a catholic, I was so lucky that I have been married 43 years, but too many marriages are breaking up now all around me, and who are we to stand in the way of a same sex marriage if it could be even stronger than a normal way of opposite sex, if two people are committed and feel strong about that.

In the absence of effective treatment for their condition and other anyway to get the person to see what kind of a body they inhabit there is not much else you can do. But trying to treat it as normal and grant equal marital rights to a physical impossibility is only adding to the problem.   

 

I’m open to change as I saw my dad had very staunch catholic approach cause nothing but heartache to my half brother and sister. We are not in a perfect world anymore.

We never have been in a perfect world that I have noticed despite the efforts of many religious leaders to make one.

And some are just born with more girly hormones and same for women, as I know of one, it makes it really hard for them through different stages of their life, sometimes downright miserable, their entitled to have some sort of happiness, It’s not for me of course, and my children the same, but in some families it’s not and can be awful for them going through life like that. If one of my kids said to me to have the same sex marriage I wouldn’t stand in the way, too many folk are just splitting up for no reason after spending thousands on weddings it’s happening everywhere now. So who are we to stand in the way of someone else’s happiness if there really taking their vows seriously and can’t make it with the opposite sex.

Happiness does not come from marriage alone. In fact marriage has nothing to do with happiness. Marriage is for the joining together of two people for the purpose of having children. Please look in your dictionary.

Happiness comes from having a purpose and overcoming the obstacles that prevent you achieving the purpose. If two people work together on the same purpose (for instance, good marriage, a good life together) and don’t have any secrets from one another, then great happiness can be achieved for both of them.

Two same sex people living together might be able to achieve a level of happiness if they don’t cheat on one another and don’t have other hidden secrets, but marriage, as such, can never be a part of it.     

Hmm I'm might cope some flack here. Wait till I get my helmet on.

cheerio

Barb

An honest response written in a non-offensive manner Merv.

Kind regards

Caroline

Thanks

In situations loaded with emotion, it is sometimes difficult to separate similarities and differences.

Well Merv, wait till I get the bullet proof vest on and coming out with guns a blazing here.

After reading all the way through the different comments.

By the sound of it, I think you would love to hear yea, I’m one of those parents that allow everything and anything, all rules thrown out the window.   

 And I think you would love it also if I said yes I don’t believe sending kids to the naughty corner,  let them be unruly cheeky and foul mouthed little brats, all the time swearing.

 You would love it if I said I was a radical person believing in throwing all sacred vows out the window.

My dad yes he work with from the traditional catholic  views, kept to all the rules, if any of the rules were broken or embarrassing to the family, you were out.  So you would love if I said we had a criminal background. That would make your day Merv.


Sorry to disappoint you there Merv, not one of those things are right couldn’t be further from the truth. You would have loved it because it would have tick all your boxes as it would have made sense to you what I had written judging from your views here.

I haven't finished yet, heaps more to come.

Barb

I believe in a good smack Merv when it’s needed, that’s how I brought my kids up.

My kids were a pleasure to take out and we were well respected no running around or pulling out toys or breaking them, in other people’s homes, always very polite, never did I have to count to 3 by one or or2 , things were put away and cleaned up.  In fact everyone comment on how well mannered and behaved they were, I spent many hours in talking and reading  playing games with them,  our friends look forward to our visits as we enjoy one another company,  no we not hippies or greenies living in tents in a forrest,or radicals either.  I’m a normal house wife Merv.  And no I’m not going to look up marriage up in the dictionary.  I’ve been there and still doing it happily.

I see many marriages going under only after 12 months and sometimes not even that. I see many people not even getting married now because of that, yes their wanting the icing on the cake first before eating the cake.  You say what’s that got to do with same sex marriage,  Well I see normal marriages not working anymore, although it’s a sacred institute between husband and wife, you say you get married to have children,  don’t look now their doing that well and truly before hand and in some cases never getting married, because of all the break downs that are happening.  I didn’t make this happen, it’s just happening whether we like it or not, you can get on you high horse as much as you like, but marriages are breaking down every day now,  one hopes for the best of course with all the best intention as you would do.

All I’m saying if 2 people of the same sex have a very strong relationship tie with one another why not.  As it stands today the sacred instrute of marriage thing Is breaking down, its not working anymore,  call it pressure of everyday living perhaps, it’s just getting to everyone  2 people need to be working to make ends meet also.

 I didn’t throw it out the window Merve, you say maybe because children weren’t discipline enough and maybe t everything got handed to them. Yes I see that happening parents are just not saying no, and I see lots more of food chemicals and sugar in many foods too that can led to children misbehaving as well.

But we are talking same sex marriage. They should be allowed to have the same sort of happiness with one another, and that piece of paper can be the most important thing  to them, and just might hold those vows more sacred than a normal marriage does these day.

 Yes its unatural but its what their wanting that comment to one another.  So why not let them have it.

 I believe that piece of paper is so important to have in any marriage.  And my children do as well, as one happily married another working on it. And my son just hasn’t found the right girl partner yet.  All attracted to the opposite sex.  Sorry to disappoint you there too Marv.

But normal marriage are just not working appears to be like a game their playing, first sign of trouble and they want out.   Same sex marriage if they can make it work better let them have a shot at it.  They couldn’t do any worse at it than what’s happening to this scared institution of marriage right now.

Marv said

Happiness does not come from marriage alone. In fact marriage has nothing to do with happiness. Marriage is for the joining together of two people for the purpose of having children. Please look in your dictionary.

I think that’s pretty awful Marv, I would never have gotten married if I thought I was not going to be happy and in love, my marriage was base on love and hoping to live happily ever after. No I’m not going to look that up, as that is taking it way too far, and I’m not that radical.

Yes I will be quite honest here, we have had the most incredible and happy times, and yes some rocky times who hasn’t, but to base it on getting marred just to have children, to do without happiness  just to have children, it wouldn’t last,  we got married because we loved one another very important key factor here, children were a blessing, and by the way, they don’t owe me anything for bringing them into the world. I will do my own looking after thanks. I never want my children looking after me. I’ve been through that in the high care looking after won’t do that to my kids.

But reading this down here underneath, its double duch here, up there you were saying

Merv said

In fact marriage has nothing to do with happiness. Marriage is for the joining together of two people for the purpose of having. And down below your saying this

Merv goes on to say.

Happiness comes from having a purpose and overcoming the obstacles that prevent you achieving the purpose. If two people work together on the same purpose (for instance, good marriage, a good life together) and don’t have any secrets from one another, then great happiness can be achieved for both of them.  

 Your say can be achieved, Barb said I think should be madly in love first up and being honest from the word go that’s what an engagements for to find out.  And the same sex marriage can be achieve a greater understanding of one another following the same guidlines.

 Merv again

Two same sex people living together might be able to achieve a level of happiness if they don’t cheat on one another and don’t have other hidden secrets, but marriage, as such, can never be a part of it.    

Barb said I disagree love is a powerful tool, and if you’re lucky enough to have it, you should hang on to it,  if they have the deepest of love for one another which not everyone is lucky enough to have,  and haven’t been able to achieve that with the opposite sex.  Of course they can make it, and if their madly in love, why shouldn’t they have the same opportunity of some sort of commitment to one another.  No its not natural, but who are we to judge that’s their own personal business at the end of the day, whether marriage in the dictionary means children or not, and that can be achieved through adoption, as their are many homeless kids out there, who need heaps of help.

No it goes against every grain we all have been brought up with, but its real and its here, I certainly didn’t make it happen, and some families have broken up over it. Mums and dads can’t accept it. What are their meant to do just say no you can’t shut the door on them, losing a sibling whom they love deeply and watch them walk away out of your life.  That’s a pretty big thing to bear. I rather going along with it than lose a son or daughter. Who knows how things turn out, No Merv I’m not a radical. I’m a mum who loves her children, and sometimes your not happy about how things are turning out with them, but a mothers love always with them no matter what, even if are different.

 I had written who we to judge . Meaning we are not perfect people not by any means, and certainly not above anyone else.  And shouldn’t be judging them if they want to get married.

Marv said

We make judgments every minute of the day with every situation we face. We make the best decisions and judgments based on view experience and understanding of the circumstance.

Barb said- and that’s what they’re doing trying to find away to cut through the red tape to find some sort of happiness together legally.  No fun growing old alone.

Ask that certain religion how about asking them to cut back on the number of wife thieve allowed to have then.

It would be horrible to grow old without a mate at the end of the day sharing jokes chats relying on one another when sick, everyday living experiences up ‘s and down’s, all because people look down on you,  because you weren’t attracted to the opposite sex,  they are human you know, with very strong feelings. But different gens and different in their way of thinking great taste thought I have to say, still human beings and entitle to some sort of happiness and contentment through life.

No I’ not throwing my values out  the window at all, I dearly love old wonderful values,  but I see it  just crumbling away, marriage is like a game to too many  taking their vows too lightly these days,  young children getting tossed backwards and forwards, its I don’t hold much hope in lasting marriages now.  Too many pressures at there now to overcome, I see marriages breaking up over other women, money, and everyday pressures of living  leaving the older one, a hell of a lot of that going on these days, I see different nationalities allowed to have some many wife’s, how come that is allowed in Australia, I don’t see anyone kicking up a fuse  over that.  Poor old same sex guys having to miss out.  If we were so successful in our old values, I would say then, yes stick to the rules. But I’m looking at a very unsuccessful old values crumbling.  So why not let them have a little bit of happiness while they can.

Life is too short, too much crap going on now. The world is changing at a rapid pace you have your views Merv, and I mine agree to disagree.

Barb

 

 I was out at a funeral yesterday, back at the wake, we had a big discussion about this again I had brought it up, as this had been playing on my mind,  being had ago over at different things in this discussion that could have led to some awful untruths, a totally misrepresentation of myself as a person.

 I brought it up with my friends.  Seems I'm was out numbered with my thinking, what they were all saying, Yes marriage should be between a man and a women only, but if the same sex partners want to have that special bonding, well they should keep it between themselves and have some sort other thing call it a different name, but not do the marriage trip as it should stay special between a man and women, and so I was clearly out numbered. 

But all agree with me the marriage system is crumbling as we know it, too many are opting out first sign of trouble, whatever the excuse.  Although we hold different views with the same sex marriage, but did agree with that vows are not being taking seriously enough, and thousands of dollars being wasted sometimes twice around.

I'm not apologizing for what I said, as each one is entitled to their own opinion

I'm being honest here, didn't have to write this could have easily let it go.

Barb

Clearly out numbered so it seems.

Written from within the National Times.

Turnbull won't cross floor on same-sex marriage

Malcolm Turnbull
Judith Ireland 7:56am | Coalition frontbencher Malcolm Turnbull will not cross the floor on gay marriage because he believes he has more value to his constituents if he stays in the shadow cabinet.

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