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Permalink Reply by Merv Nash on July 12, 2012 at 12:48pm

There are two kinds of people on this planet. Those who try to make things better, and those who try to make things worse.

 The creators and builders against the criminals and destroyers.

You could call them the high toned and the low toned. High toned people vibrate in tune with nature and Low toned vibrate in dissonance. These are not black and white divisions. The whole tone thing is a gradient, some are more creative than others, high toned, just as some are more destructive, low toned, than others.

Intelligence and ability have nothing to do with it. They are independent abilities. You can get very clever destroyers just as you can get dispersed creators. This is not appreciated as much as it could be because sometimes a person is very clever and can win every argument in sight. Making it seem like what they are arguing for is a wonderful thing. That’s not the point. The key point is; What is their motivation.

Are they clever at creating or clever at destroying? So motivation and purpose are a much more important factor in assessing a person’s worth. In other words what is the person intending to accomplish? If they get their way, what will be the outcome?

So never mind the clever arguments that the homosexuals come up with and how wonderful they are. Look at what is their purpose? What would be the end result or outcome if they completely had their way? What will society be like for the rest of humanity if their ideas are followed and their purpose be accomplished?

That’s the issue to worry about. Not even if they are right or wrong or brilliant at debating. All those points are secondary to how things will be for others if they achieve their addenda. Will it make things better or will it make things worse overall for everybody?  Will it just favour a few special interests? The rule of the greatest number of benefits against the greatest number of damage across all areas of living is the measure of a person’s or a group’s purpose.       

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Permalink Reply by james darby on July 12, 2012 at 1:17pm

Thanks Merv for your profound throughts. this comes from a FB friend

Howard Beale

'Excellent comment James - "Julia Gillard's "High Participation" standardised education system denies that there are two sexes and that males and females now have no requirement for defined roles" - however Gillard's abolition of "gender" agenda extends well beyond education. Gillard is bulk legislating by guillotine laws promoting the radical feminist ideological dream of a fully androgynous working Marxist society;-  the underhanded and unilateral repeal of shared parenting of children after separation, the introduction of American VAWA gender laws that redefine violence as non-violence, subjective sexual harassment & rape without penetration, the implementation of CEDAW as official social policy becomes a licence for feminists to sue, re-educate, and re-socialize their fellow citizens  wherever there is a perceived statistical gender disparity, Gender quotas in employment & legislatures, comparable-worth pay policies, state-subsidized daycare, 20-40% "wage gap" increases to predominantly female social workers, government funded daycare & collectivised child rearing facilities anticipating the re-engineering of traditional "patriachal" family into single mothers & their children. Of course this subsidised by us with billions in welfare from the Carbon & MRRT tax. Gillard with her Emily's List cronies are dangerous.'

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Permalink Reply by james darby on July 12, 2012 at 1:33pm

Thankyou Rob Moore for the snippets from the book on Sir Joh, very interesting. I remember when Flo answered a question about how she came to marry Sir Joh. Lady Flo's reply "At 42 I was a plum ripe for the plucking" 

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Permalink Reply by Dr Caroline Wright on July 12, 2012 at 1:34pm

Merv I did not realise that you were a philosopher and now a legend (in my book) as well. It made for excellent reading.

Kind regards

Caroline

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Permalink Reply by Jan Courtney on July 12, 2012 at 4:23pm

A change of heart on the topic then Caroline ???????

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Permalink Reply by Merv Nash on July 12, 2012 at 11:37pm

I found Howard's entry a bit too complicated especially with all the acronymns with which I am not familiar.

The best I can make of it is, he seems to be making a list if destructive actions. This would label the instigator as a Low Toned person which indicates their motivations. In other words, an alert that   destruction of something decent is on the way.
 
james darby said:

Thanks Merv for your profound throughts. this comes from a FB friend

Howard Beale

'Excellent comment James - "Julia Gillard's "High Participation" standardised education system denies that there are two sexes and that males and females now have no requirement for defined roles" - however Gillard's abolition of "gender" agenda extends well beyond education. Gillard is bulk legislating by guillotine laws promoting the radical feminist ideological dream of a fully androgynous working Marxist society;-  the underhanded and unilateral repeal of shared parenting of children after separation, the introduction of American VAWA gender laws that redefine violence as non-violence, subjective sexual harassment & rape without penetration, the implementation of CEDAW as official social policy becomes a licence for feminists to sue, re-educate, and re-socialize their fellow citizens  wherever there is a perceived statistical gender disparity, Gender quotas in employment & legislatures, comparable-worth pay policies, state-subsidized daycare, 20-40% "wage gap" increases to predominantly female social workers, government funded daycare & collectivised child rearing facilities anticipating the re-engineering of traditional "patriachal" family into single mothers & their children. Of course this subsidised by us with billions in welfare from the Carbon & MRRT tax. Gillard with her Emily's List cronies are dangerous.'

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Permalink Reply by james darby on July 13, 2012 at 3:13pm

CEDAW http://www.un.org/womenwatch/daw/cedaw/  VAWA Volience Against Women Act

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Permalink Reply by Barbara lee on July 13, 2012 at 5:33pm

Gens Merv Gens they can't help it with what their born with.

And I have found a straight man differently does not like to hear of another man making out with same gender especial if their straight. Always ark up over it always ready to ridicule.

Prove is in the pudding here.

Merv Nash said:

Wow!

There's more heat in this subject than is generated by the totality of all the alternative energy systems.

It brings to mind the old saying that, being in the right does not depend on having a loud voice.

They must feel incredibly inferior to want to pretend they are in the same relationship as is a man and a woman.

 

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Merv Nash on July 13, 2012 at 7:18pm

I suppose you mean “genes”, Well that is a point of contention. You may not have a lot of choice over what your parents have been up to and inflicted your body with. You do have a choice about what you do about it when you realise they have given you a problem. There are other options besides accepting it as some kind of fate or something. Just the idea that it is in your genes is pretty fatalistic and certainly not a proven point of fact. It’s a silly as believing that all your thoughts come from chemical reactions in your brain and you don’t exist as a person.

But besides that, it is a fact that one feels inferior when one finds out they are not like the rest of the crowd. That’s a pretty much natural reaction. Have you never been embarrassed in front of a group when they took advantage of you for not knowing something or not being able to do some action they could all easily do?

Trying to drag the crowd down to accept a personal problem as either normal or to make out that you are the same when you are clearly not, makes for a bigger problem for both the afflicted and the crowd. Not only does it not solve the problem, it creates a fight and develops the heat I mentioned in my comment. This makes it even more obvious that either side does not have a proper solution. If one side or the other did have the right solution the problem would be resolved and it would melt away as do all problems when a correct solution has been found.

There was no arcing or ridicule in my comment. It was simply a statement of how the system works.

Where would we finish up if every sick person, from headaches to colds to cancer, made out that this was “normal” and everybody should be sick too or that they should just accept it as normal and we should close down the entire medical profession and their cures and research and let sickness spread through the whole community?

Barbara lee said:

Gens Merv Gens they can't help it with what their born with.

And I have found a straight man differently does not like to hear of another man making out with same gender especial if their straight. Always ark up over it always ready to ridicule.

Prove is in the pudding here.

Merv Nash said:

Wow!

There's more heat in this subject than is generated by the totality of all the alternative energy systems.

It brings to mind the old saying that, being in the right does not depend on having a loud voice.

They must feel incredibly inferior to want to pretend they are in the same relationship as is a man and a woman.

 

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Barbara lee on July 13, 2012 at 9:57pm

ok Merv what would you do then if you were born with a high pitch voice being a man but talking like a girl, even walking moving like a girl, and you were made fun off through school and high school, and were made to feel inferior seems to be your favorite word, and I could see you doing that for sure to someone. Are you saying that you could fix all your problems, could be rectified maybe.  Or what say these problems that could be rectifide, was going to cost you big bucks and you didn't have the money, and had to stay as you were.  How would you handle that situation. Are you to go through life feeling unhappy being put down and not allowed if found a soul mate to enjoying some sort of happiness.

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Permalink Reply by james darby on July 14, 2012 at 11:52am

Hi Barbara, I am not about to speak for Merv however I will imagine that you addressed the question to myself. I had polio at two years and walked with a profound limp. I did not expect every other child to be shot in a leg to walk like me. Sure over the years I observed that disadvantaged children are treated by others in a more accepting way. A society is best served by attempting elevate the expectations of the 'less normal' (as I am) than be depreciating the expectations of 'normal' or main steam persons. The introduction of scoring individuals in a class in comparrison to the average score of that class denies congratualations to the excellent. The introduction of "A's" and C's and B's served to remore the % mark so that competition between individuals became disguised. Recognition of the best became lost in the desire to protect the under acheivers. Dr Wyndham as Director General of Education began the socialist rot from 1952 and by 1968 children where taught to think collectivily instead of individually.

I have no doubt that young males, including those who do not appear effeminate,  are driven by high sex drives and any inhibitors that society can offer, that sex between same gender persons is not acceptable behaviour, aids the natural and normal desires that parents genetically own to raise hetrosexual children. There are people in society who are unable to provide for their own living and then there are people who could and chose to suck on the public teat and not work. If women exercised the same sexual restraint as men, everywhere you went you would find people fornicating as happened in the Oxford St bath houses pre-AIDS ( I have been a Kings Cross nightclub owner). To relax the general view that homosexual sex is unnatural, unclean and soul destroying removes the inhibitors that restrict males from taking that unfortunate path. Protecting the effeminate from feeling badly should not be done at the expense of the normal family and the expectations of the family.  

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Permalink Reply by Barbara lee on July 14, 2012 at 8:51pm

ok James with much respect to you and I did respect the last reply about grandmothers took that on board, I actual enjoyed the reading as you had put much into it.  Yes you have gone through personal health issues and been to hell and back, you've have injured much.  As I'am  actual carer to my husband, with major problems, spinal lung and heart, have been a high level career to my mum 5 years my house was turned into a minie hospital can apreciate what you have gone through. I know what pain and struggles of living can be all about.  And that's maybe why I have stuck up for the underdog here.  Some people who through no fault of their own just can't share a little happiness just feel thats mean, not talking about left wingers or screw loose nuts, that on banners have written up God there is no God on their signs, that's down right awful.  Genuine ones who mean it deserve a little piece of happiness. Agree to disagree here, as I won't be in here again.

And with all of this still say the vows of marriage is crumbling around us.

To a person that was born with females hormones and trap into a mans body. I feel this discussion is just going around and has no ending I have my views and differently won't change. You and mev have yours, is gone way too indepth and outer bounds judging from all that has been said.  Be it whether their are 2 different people on the earth ones who want to destroy or work hard to build whatever, we are all Gods children at the end of the day, and so each one is not perfect not by a long shot.

I see very much one eyed views, all white no grey.

At the end of the day I've come to the conclusion Cate was right, to cut it short should be a ceremony separate to a marriage but called it a different name so they can have a special something that's meaningful to them.

Barb

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