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Permalink Reply by peter cvek on June 4, 2012 at 7:26pm

... It is wrong... It has always been wrong... It will always be wrong... Why? because it contravenes Nature as well as Divine order... Go to any Homosexual night club and see if there is no substance abuse, no violence, no abuse ( as in the case of the homosexual couple placed on trial recently in the USA for sodomizing a 12 year old boy together and then murdering him.. This is what you are exposing children to?)How can they express maternal love when they are not maternal by birth and nature? Why should we take threats from Voltaires cue and hypocrisy in regards to preaching the truth? Voltaire may have numbers on his side now, but he and his ilk will not last forever... I do not go to Church precisely because it tolerates things that are contrary to Christianity, such as homosexuals and atheists... Yet at the same time I do not consider myself, or anyone else but God as Good ( which is what Christ decreed as a maxim).. Should I shudder and quake in my boots if a little volunteer Lifeliner, who covers a lack of altruism, hardened conscience and atheism, and slithers into a domain originally started by, and ,reserved for, believers rather than atheists, makes threats against preaching the truth? Remember that the devil's ministers present themselves as ministers of light and goodness, in order to wean the innocent by stealth away from true light and goodness... Noone is " good" as you claim, the best we can hope for is to be made new, transformed by Christ's mercy... Then we CAN be truly pure, though perpetually subject to temptations... As for sin, you obviously do not know what you are talking about when attempting Theology, since the World was originally made, if you recall, as well as man and woman, without death, decay, sin, but through the abuse of Free Will became cursed as it is, until a future time when it shall be made anew... It was ONLY designed to be without sin... Do get your facts right before presuming to be a Theologian as well as one of the Atheistic Religion.... The twain paths can NEVER meet...
Peter Cvek

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Permalink Reply by vivienne skeen on June 4, 2012 at 7:34pm

LOL

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Permalink Reply by Rob Moore on June 4, 2012 at 8:50pm

Ebony- traditional marriage is struggling with very high failure rates and obviously the example set from our beloved PM down says that anything goes.

             All the single parent housholds are bad situations and there will always be those that need help -lifeline and the like. The more the solid foundations of society get watered down- the more that will end up on the confused scapheap full of drugs and crime. For every one  adoption that may be ok -there will be more than one that is dogey and if they end up like the rest of the marriage stats - all will be devalued for nothing but chaos and embarrisment all round! It is wrong to interfere.

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Permalink Reply by Stephen Cox on June 4, 2012 at 10:19pm

Peter I have a philosophy and it reads thus,Selfishness is the root cause of all Evil and most religions operate on either a threat basis or a selfishness basis therefore I conclude they are all wrong.

 

For a religion to operate on a threat basis as many do "ie eternal damnation" is in truth no better than the quasi religious nature of Naziism,To operate the other way "ie do this and act thus to gain the riches of heaven" is in turn prevailing apon the act of selfishness by the individual to achieve such a result.

 

In every case involving others be they beast or human selfishness leads to evil or a bad result for someone else,The rapist looks only to satisfy their selfish desires hence the act is Evil as it causes harm to another.

The Coward who deserts a fellow traveller in need ,for instance one being attacked by a group of thugs or struggling to stay afloat in a stormy sea,The person deserted then suffers from the actions of the selfish one as his torments are increased by the cowardice of his fellow traveller and likely then will inflict greater harm on the victim,Therefore the Coward has contributed to the harm of his fellow traveller as though he struck them as well as the thugs or aided the stormy sea in sapping the will to live from his fellow traveller

Selfishness in the smugness of you dismissing all who do not agree with your particular religious take on life it leads directly or otherwise to harming individuals whether you know them or not,More Evil has been carried out in the History of this World by those spouting religious Fervor than by those whom are classified as Atheist,These are proven facts as recorded by History and in many cases by those of religious standing.

When it comes to passing judgement apon others  remember one of your Religious sayings Let he who is without Sin cast the First Stone.

I seem to remember the Islamists still practice that little joy and by rote the teachings of Christianity where they speak of such a happening also tell us they were as guilty of said actions as the followers of Islamn otherwise why the warning from your Gods representative.

On one hand you condemm the gay community as unnatural be that as it may therefore by said action placing the focus on their actions as Evil and or Unnatural and yet do not recognise your own actions being of a selfish nature lead down the slippery path to a similar fate if you are correct in your assumptions,Hence the statement about stone throwing.

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Permalink Reply by peter cvek on June 4, 2012 at 10:57pm

... Stephen... Let's look a little into your hotch-potch philosophy, for, if we be honest, it can hardly be termed " original"... In your first sentence you borrow half a phrase from the Bible ( to which Biblical Religion you then deny any relevance and infact intimate that it is " evil", ie; being of a " selfish nature").. I presume that since you deem yourself above religion that philosophy has precedence, or at least YOUR ( selfish??) " interpretation" of a hotch-potch philosophical " maxim" ( ???).. You kill two birds with the first stone that you cast ( for you cast a stone at Religion, and by reflex all those who are religious), namely, the bird that is called " originality" ( which you deem to possess philosophically), and the bird that is called "logically true", since you will never prove that your maxim regarding selfishness is a valid and true maxim ( except perhaps in your own mind), precisely because you plagiarize most of it from the Bible, yet completely out of context and contrary to the original fullness of the Word, and then proceed to throw more and more stones against those who prefer to believe the Bible, as opposed to yourself.. ( a little " selfishly" perhaps??) The little you know about Nazism is another wayward stone, for Hitler's men were certainly NOT Christians nor Religious, but revived the Pagan " PHILOSOPHY" of the worship of Woden ( whom the Greek Philosophers worshipped as Hermes)- even carrying images of Woden in procession in honour of the " Hall of the Fallen in Val-Hell-a" ( my etymological emphasis).... As I have said in the past, the homosexual community condemns itself, and is condemned by nature, as well as the Commands of God... I do not have to condemn anyone, since they condemn themselves and contravene their consciences and contort the natural into the unnatural... Perhaps your ( selfish??) stone-throwing against the morals of true religion ( which has to this day a wider acceptance than the homosexual lobby does) waves a broader wand, and strikes a less merciful blow, to great numbers of innocent believers that you ( selfishly??) tarnish with the brush of bigotry... I would suggest that you look into yourself first, before casting sweeping philosophical adages with no roots nor truth in them, like stones against those who prefer not to live in glass bubbles of atheistic religion, such as you so obviously appear to call home... I need not go further into the wayward fruits of your invented " philosophy" ( I have not yet even begun on the third paragraph)... You do a better job than I ever could at discrediting it and yourself by your own words...

 

Peter Cvek

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Permalink Reply by Rory Donnellan on June 5, 2012 at 7:24am

An interesting perspective from Italy's Prof de Mattei...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/8438210/Fall...

Some could argue that Australia has already fallen into the hands of barbarians i.e. the Labor government.

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Permalink Reply by peter cvek on June 5, 2012 at 3:30pm

 

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Permalink Reply by james darby on June 5, 2012 at 3:36pm

                                             
    Can't argue with  these "words of  wisdom"!!!
                                             
  
   
 
HOW DO YOU   DECIDE WHOM TO MARRY?    (written by kids)  



You got to  find somebody who  likes the same stuff. Like, if you  like sports, she should like it that  you like sports,  and she should keep the chips and dip  coming.   
- Alan, age  10

No person really  decides before they grow up who  they're going to  marry. God decides it all way before, and you get to   find out later who you're stuck with.  
- Kristen, age  10   


2.   WHAT IS  THE RIGHT AGE TO GET MARRIED?   
Twenty-three  is the best age because you know the person  FOREVER by  then. 
- Camille, age  10


3.  HOW CAN A   STRANGER TELL IF TWO PEOPLE ARE  MARRIED?  
You might  have to guess, based on  whether they seem to be  yelling at the same kids.
- Derrick, age  8  


4.  WHAT DO  YOU THINK  YOUR MOM AND DAD HAVE IN  COMMON?  
Both don't   want any more kids.   
- Lori, age   8   


5.  WHAT DO  MOST PEOPLE  DO ON A DATE?  
Dates are  for having fun, and  people should use them to get to  know each other. Even boys have something  to say if  you listen long enough.  
--    Lynnette, age 8     (isn't  she  a treasure)

On the first   date, they just tell each other lies and that usually  gets them  interested enough to go for a second   date. 
--   Martin, age 10  


6.  WHEN IS IT  OKAY TO  KISS SOMEONE?   
When they're  rich.   
-  Pam,  age 7

The law says  you have to be  eighteen, so I wouldn't want to mess  with that. 
-  Curt,  age 7

The rule  goes  like this: If you kiss someone, then you should  marry them and have kids  with them. It's the right  thing to do.   
- Howard, age  8  


7.    IS IT   BETTER TO BE SINGLE OR   MARRIED?   
It's  better for girls to be single but not for boys. Boys   need someone to clean up after them. 
-  Anita, age  9   


8.  HOW WOULD   THE WORLD BE DIFFERENT IF PEOPLE  DIDN'T   GET   MARRIED?   
There sure  would be  a lot of kids to explain, wouldn't  there? 
-  Kelvin, age  8  

And  the #1  favourite is .......  


9.  HOW WOULD   YOU MAKE A MARRIAGE   WORK?    
Tell your  wife that she looks pretty, even if she  looks like a  dump truck.
- Ricky, age   10 
     
 
 
 

 

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Permalink Reply by peter cvek on June 5, 2012 at 3:47pm

... one must not forget that to be Religious IS to be truly humanitarian... religion is fidelity to God, man and Truth, and is therefore humanitarian in the highest degree, whilst irreligion is certainly NOT humanitarian, but is simply termed " INFIDELITY" to both God and Humanity.. There is no room for sentimentality when truth is involved....

Peter Cvek

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Permalink Reply by Jan Courtney on June 5, 2012 at 3:58pm

Just a few more to add to the wisdom of the young ones James - 

 

-----Children's View of Love and Marriage What Exactly Is Marriage?   "Marriage is when you get to keep your girl and don't have to give her back to her parents" -Eric, AGE 6   "When somebody's been dating for a while, the boy might propose to the girl. He says to her, 'I'll take you for a whole life, or at least until we have kids and get divorced, but you got to do one particular thing for me.' Then she says yes, but she's wondering what the thing is and whether it's naughty or not. She can't wait to find out." -Anita, AGE 9   How Does a Person Decide Whom to marry?   "You flip a nickel, and heads means you stay with him and tails means you try the next one." -Kelly, AGE 9   "My mother says to look for a man who is kind....That's what I'll do....I'll find somebody who's kinda tall and handsome." -Carolyn, AGE 8   Concerning the Proper Age to Get Married.   "Eighty-four Because at that age, you don't have to work anymore, and you can spend all your time loving each other in your bedroom." -Carolyn, AGE 8   "Once I'm done with kindergarten, I'm going to find me a wife" -Bert, AGE 5   How Did Your Mom and Dad Meet?   "They were at a dance party at a friend's house. Then they went for a drive, but their car broke down...It was a good thing, because it gave them a chance to find out about their values." -Lottie, AGE 9   "My father was doing some strange chores for my mother. They won't tell me what kind." -Jeremy, AGE 8   What Do Most People Do on a Date?   "Many daters just eat pork chops and french fries and talk about love." -Craig, AGE 9   When Is It Okay to Kiss Someone?   "You should never kiss a girl unless you have enough bucks to buy her a ring and her own VCR, 'cause she'll want to have videos of the wedding." -Allan, AGE 10   "Never kiss in front of other people. It's a big embarrassing thing if anybody sees you....If nobody sees you, I might be willing to try it with a handsome boy, but just for a few hours." -Kally, AGE 9   The Great Debate: Is It Better to Be Single or Married?   "You should ask the people who read Cosmopolitan" -Kirsten, AGE 10   "It gives me a headache to think about that stuff. I'm just a kid. I don't need that kind of trouble." -Will, AGE 7

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Permalink Reply by Jan Courtney on June 5, 2012 at 4:06pm

Caroline, certainly there are two camps,  but your assumption as to what they are is quite wrong.  They are simply those who are against same sex marriage and those who are for it.

I have friends who have a gay son,  a young man I have known since he was 4 years old.  He and his partner are more than happy to remain in the caring and committed relationship they have.  They don't see marriage as a necessity, or even as important to them.  Their parents have agonised over probably most of the issues that have arisen from this discussion,  they were devastated at first but their love for their son has transcended all the other issues, and they have (as have all the family and real friends) come to accept him and his partner without reserve.  So I guess most parents on finding a child is gay would go through the same things in their minds.

Dr Caroline Wright said:

I have purposely shied away from this discussion topic as it is obvious that there are two camps the religious and the humanitarian and one will never convince the other. I have from time to time added a small comment but occasionally would read where the discussion was at. Then a thought came to me .... What if a Just Grounds member was the parent of a homosexual ...how would they feel about the tone of the discussion .... Lets just walk in their shoes for a moment.......

That is what I wanted to say.

Kind regards

Caroline

 

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Permalink Reply by Carol Petith on June 5, 2012 at 4:06pm

Religion is for those who wish to be saved from hell

Spirituality is for those who have been to hell.

Carol

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