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Permalink Reply by peter cvek on June 4, 2012 at 2:33pm

..Since you have raised up Scripture passages, please remember that Christ also said that not only does their own heart and conscience " CONDEMN THEM", but the Word of God condemns them as well... He gives " the world a chance; free of condemnation", but once the limit is reached.. no more chance.. Paul tells us that these vices are CONTRARY to NATURE, and bring upon us eternal CONDEMNATION, and that we shall know the workers of darkness by their fruits... Voltaire and all his Philosopher comrades died unrepentant, and most of them blasphemed with their dying breaths... Since you are keen on Scripture quotes, try the following " If you do not warn the wicked of the error of their ways, their blood shall be required at your hand".... We do not set up ourselves as judges, but we must discern, follow good, reject bad, and reprove falsehood and error, and " be our brother's/ sister's keeper"...

Peter Cvek

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Permalink Reply by james darby on June 4, 2012 at 2:48pm

http://biblebrowser.com/ezekiel/3-18.htm

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Permalink Reply by vivienne skeen on June 4, 2012 at 2:53pm

I believe if the Marriage Act is changed to include Same Sex Marriage, it will be an absolute disaster. I would never vote for it under any circumstance. But I do not judge anyone for the love they have for another human being. I do not believe that love to be 'wicked' nor would I set myself up as the judge, jury and executioner.

I do not understand homosexuality, that is because I am heterosexual, I repeat I do not believe your sexuality is a matter of choice, I for one do not remember at all, making a conscious choice to be heterosexual rather than homosexual. I do remember that when I became aware that there were those who were attracted to the same sex, I was glad I was not, as I could see that life was made extremely difficult for those that were.

The Anti Discrimination Act, is set to make us all the same, it should be abolished in its current form.

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Permalink Reply by peter cvek on June 4, 2012 at 3:13pm

.... Self-denying " Love" and animal " Lust" are entirely different things...Paul tells us that the ONLY reason why men " work with men that which is unseemly" is because they follow the " fire of lust", and NOT love.. Same is true for women who abominate themselves in the same manner.. We can hold an innocent " love" for anyone, but that " Love" should not translate into imitation of animal " lust", excepting when it accords with created nature, namely, in marriage between a man and a woman... If one " does not know" if sexuality is a matter of choice or not, to claim that one " believes that it is not a matter of choice" is a conflict of logic; a bit of a " logical knot", and perhaps a little dishonesty as well... Political correctnes has made us ashamed of our own consciences, and puts great pressure on us to " toe the fashionable line" even when we know it is wrong and abominable... Whether we appeal to our own state of innocence in Conscience ( in which is ingrained the law of God,by the way, and as long as it is not hardened) OR Scripture, we have no excuse for " not knowing".. It is only when we REJECT such simple instruction, that our consciences harden and we listen more and more to the " doppleganger" of destruction that clings to the rebellious stiff neck... We really have no excuse, if we want to be honest about it....

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Permalink Reply by vivienne skeen on June 4, 2012 at 3:25pm

I can assure you Peter I do not toe any political or fashionable line. I repeat I do not believe anyone's sexuality is a matter of choice, but the way the individual is wired. To think differently in my view is to defy logic. Not dishonesty as you suggest.

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Permalink Reply by Malcolm Fenton on June 4, 2012 at 3:33pm

THE STALINIZATION OF LOVE

Bella Dodd, a former leader of the American Communist Party revealed: "The bourgeois family as a social unit was to be made obsolete." The aim was to "create a new type of human being that would conform to the world they confidently expected to control."

Marriage is under constant assault. This formula has worked for centuries and still works today.

http://www.henrymakow.com/000319.html - The Hidden Knowledge of Heterosexuality

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Permalink Reply by peter cvek on June 4, 2012 at 3:34pm

... reverse psychology re the logic bit just doesn't cut it, I'm afraid... wired?... wired to what? are you a robot, or simply an animal? or were you also made in the image of man, who was made in the image of God... once again, the " belief" you express is a cultured one, namely, inherited from the fallacies of Philosophical speculation, which also governs medical theory ( and NOT vice versa).. You were not BORN with that belief; you EMBRACED it at some stage, contrary to your conscience ( this is a universal reality and process, and not merely an individual one)... wired? The position is a man of straw, and indeed smacks of dishonesty with oneself, which is even worse... Not convincing at all....

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Permalink Reply by Jan Courtney on June 4, 2012 at 3:46pm

Irrespective of arguments about the how and why of homosexuality,  they are a minority group within the community and should not be given the power to undermine the family unit and marriage which is universally defined, whether they like it or not, as union between a man and a woman.

 

 

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Permalink Reply by vivienne skeen on June 4, 2012 at 5:18pm

I agree, The Marriage Act should not be altered, I don't believe those pushing for same sex marriage are doing it for the benefit of the Gay population either.  But it does no good to demonise anyone because they are gay. There are plenty of deviants in the heterosexual community as well Peter. They're wired that way!

Jan Courtney said:

Irrespective of arguments about the how and why of homosexuality,  they are a minority group within the community and should not be given the power to undermine the family unit and marriage which is universally defined, whether they like it or not, as union between a man and a woman.

 

 

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Permalink Reply by peter cvek on June 4, 2012 at 5:51pm

... nobody is " wired" for anything... sorry to disappoint you and your unqualified theory... robots are wired.. hips are wired... but NOBODY is " wired" ( whatever that means; it's a convenient " excuse" no doubt for you and many others)... Secondly, you just admitted that homosexuality is a "deviation", but that the " deviation" is wired? You REALLY have your wires " crossed" in that respect, have you not? Anyhow, a demon is a demon, a spade is a spade, a deviant is a deviant, but our Maker DOES NOT create " robots" and " deviants" from birth, otherwise He would then be unjust, which He is certainly not... There are indeed plenty of deviants EVERYWHERE, especially in the heterosexual community, but NONE of them were/are born that way... All have a Free Will to choose... Some choose good, others bad, but none are " wired" or " programmed" ( which is what you are suggesting, I presume)... Reasonless animals are subject to instinctive reaction, a kind of fatalism, for when a male dog copulates with a male dog it does so because he seeks a moist hole, and not because he was created that way, but HUMANS are not subject to fate or instinct ( unless they choose to imitate animals)... If fate was all that there was, we would not be having a conversation, for without the intervention of providential will, the universe would not exist... Step back and reason a little, rather than defend an indefensible stance with an acquired prejudice, and mere political correctness. You've obviously been listening too much to Lady GaGa... A bad apple will spoil a basket of good apples, but a basket of good apples will never make a bad one better... Sometimes, sadly, we must throw out the bad and leave it to its own putrefaction, in order to save the good... Thoughts can be like that.. People can be like that... You want a nice gold ring and earrings, then you must separate and throw away the dross first, before you can admire the beauty of the gold... When it first leaves the ground, gold is not a pretty sight... Morals take cultivating just like gold. Vice and immorality must be relinquished and sometimes burned away 7 times in order to admire and appreciate the beauty, as in a precious metal, of their intended end result... Life engenders Life, Decay engenders Decay, and Death engenders Death.. The choice is ours, and not that of some silly fatal birthstone.. We are not subject to fate nor the " stars" as the Philosophers teach... We were made unique, and in the image of the Divine..

 

Peter Cvek

Peter Cvek

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Permalink Reply by vivienne skeen on June 4, 2012 at 6:08pm

Dont manipulate my words Peter you are he one talking about deviants you are the one calling all Gay people deviant, you miss the argument when you lump changing the marriage act only to same sex marriage, what about polygamy that will be next what will your argument be them, the Muslims who practise polygamy do it because of their religeous beliefs. Peter you are so hung up about homosexuality, take a good look at what you are saying and the venom your are saying it with..

peter cvek said:

... nobody is " wired" for anything... sorry to disappoint you and your unqualified theory... robots are wired.. hips are wired... but NOBODY is " wired" ( whatever that means; it's a convenient " excuse" no doubt for you and many others)... Secondly, you just admitted that homosexuality is a "deviation", but that the " deviation" is wired? You REALLY have your wires " crossed" in that respect, have you not? Anyhow, a demon is a demon, a spade is a spade, a deviant is a deviant, but our Maker DOES NOT create " robots" and " deviants" from birth, otherwise He would then be unjust, which He is certainly not... There are indeed plenty of deviants EVERYWHERE, especially in the heterosexual community, but NONE of them were/are born that way... All have a Free Will to choose... Some choose good, others bad, but none are " wired" or " programmed" ( which is what you are suggesting, I presume)... Reasonless animals are subject to instinctive reaction, a kind of fatalism, for when a male dog copulates with a male dog it does so because he seeks a moist hole, and not because he was created that way, but HUMANS are not subject to fate or instinct ( unless they choose to imitate animals)... If fate was all that there was, we would not be having a conversation, for without the intervention of providential will, the universe would not exist... Step back and reason a little, rather than defend an indefensible stance with an acquired prejudice, and mere political correctness. You've obviously been listening too much to Lady GaGa... A bad apple will spoil a basket of good apples, but a basket of good apples will never make a bad one better... Sometimes, sadly, we must throw out the bad and leave it to its own putrefaction, in order to save the good... Thoughts can be like that.. People can be like that... You want a nice gold ring and earrings, then you must separate and throw away the dross first, before you can admire the beauty of the gold... When it first leaves the ground, gold is not a pretty sight... Morals take cultivating just like gold. Vice and immorality must be relinquished and sometimes burned away 7 times in order to admire and appreciate the beauty, as in a precious metal, of their intended end result... Life engenders Life, Decay engenders Decay, and Death engenders Death.. The choice is ours, and not that of some silly fatal birthstone.. We are not subject to fate nor the " stars" as the Philosophers teach... We were made unique, and in the image of the Divine..

 

Peter Cvek

Peter Cvek

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Permalink Reply by Rob Moore on June 4, 2012 at 6:42pm

Having a good moral compass is often overlooked, just because people have a different belief system than you or me.

It is of no importance if that good person also happens to be homosexual, married, not married, religious or atheist.

           I do agree with you here Ebony.  BUT I do not think that they should have the right to get MARRIED (homosexuals that is) as their is absolutely no need unless they want to adopt kids and this is WRONG- they should get a pet instead!

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