Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Dr Caroline Wright on August 2, 2012 at 11:26pm

A very interesting post Phillip which may raise a few hairs and some lively discussion.

We need to take care of our children and be involved with their schooling and be informed about what is being taught in these their very informative years. And also be alert to values that may be contrary to those held by ourselves, the parents, and debate such issues through appropriate school forums.

Now about change. Yes I believe that as we grow in knowledge and wisdom change is bound to occur. But I do not believe in change for change sake.

Acceptance of change can be difficult for some people. Normality is like that old warm comfortable jumper that you like to put on and snuggle up with a good book and you get that feeling that all is right with the world and you feel at peace. When change occurs and a new jumper is bought it looks nicer and cleaner and probably fits a bit better and you are convinced that the new is better than the old. But sometime you will get that old jumper out and wear it just for a little while because of the memories surrounding that old jumper which still have to be attached to the new jumper.

Kind regards

Caroline

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Permalink Reply by Phillip Watson on August 3, 2012 at 10:08am

Dale,

I'm not attempting to point out shortcomings in others. I'm merely saying that today's "dangerous progressive change" is tomorrow's normality. The views held by the left today will often be the views of the right in a few decades, while the views of the left will have progressed even further. And so the cycle continues. As I wrote above, I have no doubt that by the time I'm 80 my views will be far more conservative than those of my children. In fact, although I don't consider myself a conservative now, I'm sure that I'm more conservative than most young adults today.

Note that when I say "progressed" I'm not necessarily saying that means progress for the better, I'm simply saying that it happens, and always has. For example 500 years ago you'd be executed for adultery, and divorce was unheard of. Today, even the most conservative amongst us wouldn't advocate execution, and divorce is commonplace (many would argue too common).

As for Christianity...It has been slowly dying in most developed nations for a long time. I don't think anyone is predicting it will suddenly disappear, just that there is a long and constant decline. It's inevitable that Christianity will soon fall below 50%.

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Permalink Reply by Jan Courtney on August 3, 2012 at 11:06am

Oh poor Phillip,  you have such a pessimistic view of the world. 

 

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Permalink Reply by Phillip Watson on August 3, 2012 at 3:04pm

Jan Courtney said:

Oh poor Phillip,  you have such a pessimistic view of the world. 

Pessimistic???

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Permalink Reply by Jan Courtney on August 3, 2012 at 4:15pm

Yep    Absolutely    

 

Phillip Watson said:

Jan Courtney said:

Oh poor Phillip,  you have such a pessimistic view of the world. 

Pessimistic???

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Permalink Reply by Dr Caroline Wright on August 3, 2012 at 6:15pm

Phillip you said that One day the "progressive" position is the one held by the majority, and change occurs. I go back to where the Greens Party fits here which I raised in Beverley's new topic "Capitalism or Socialism????" They are implementing great changes but certainly are not in the majority. What are your thoughts about this?

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Permalink Reply by Stephen Cox on August 4, 2012 at 12:26am

The only constant is change,But Progress is undertaken by all members of Humanity as we grow through lifes experiences.

However do not confuse political idealogies such as the so called "Progressive Movement" born in America just over one hundred years ago as being what it purports itself to be.

Unpopular Political Idealogies are just that for a reason,Why is it for instance that despite years of flim flannery the Greens only control some 10% on average of the Voting public,For every person who has no idea or doesn't care that may Vote Green the Majority reject their Ideals from a perspective of balanced self serving and Social Reality.

For instance a Mother cannot be a good mother unless she at times responds to her own needs that some may construe as selfish,For to look after ones Children one must first look after oneself or risk being incapable of doing so.

A good real life example would be a drug Addict.Someone that by definition does not care for themselves and as experience shows us in Society proves incapable of looking after Children bnecause of that addiction.

 

Now when you consider the "progressive View" such as Decriminalise drugs then any fool can see what the Disaster is that would be looming after that change in the Law for the experience has already be so publically lived by members of Society ,Therefore Society in the Main rejects such moves and would by your definition be considered "Conservative".

The truth of the matter is they are Wise and Wisdom is often attacked by those on the Left as being Conservative,Therefore by Rote being Progressive would probably equate to being Foolish.

When you look at some of the Progressives such as Bob Brown ( They have extincted themselves etc speech) the He fits the Role of Progressive Fool.

Not all progress is made by Fools though,In fact many worthy ideas have progressed the general condition of mankind and the impetus has come from people some would consider Conservative far more often than from the Left side of Politics.

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Permalink Reply by Dr Caroline Wright on August 4, 2012 at 2:53pm

I agree with several of the above responses as it is not either/or it is on a continuum:

conservatism <--------------------------------------->progress-oriented

and people can sit somewhere on the line at different times in their lives and sometimes on different issues. 

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Permalink Reply by Jan Courtney on August 4, 2012 at 4:00pm

It's very interesting that church attendances are dropping in the mainstream churches,  but many of the others (what some may refer to as happy clappers - no offence meant) are thriving.  Young people are going in droves,  I see them pouring into "Lifehouse" on Sundays.  I have also noticed though, that in my own (Catholic) parish,  baptisms are increasing , and where a couple of years ago we didn't seem to hear babies and toddlers in church, we now do. 

 

Are the statistics incorrect,  or are people finding an increasing  need to be in touch with their God ? 

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Permalink Reply by Stephen Cox on August 4, 2012 at 7:19pm

I think one of the best advocates with a vision for the future was Gene Rodenberry the Creator of Star Trek,When you look back at the Original series and consider the timeframe it was made in it was certainly progressive thinking ideas wise,But the future Vision was clearly and openly laid out for all to see and aspire towards.

Current progressives such as proponents of Agenda 21 operate in secrecy,Witness we have yet to be told just exactly what Combet signed Australia up for on a number of Occasions now,That alone in my books is a dead giveaway that he would probably be lynched in any town in Australia if people actually knew what he had done,If that is Progress bring back the Local Sherriff and Boot Hill  at least back then justice was Swift and upkeep at a minimal cost to the Law Abiding Citizen.

 

When taken into context with so much of what is occurring with Judgements from the Legal Proffession then we have likely in many cases gone backwards not forwards for there are certainly some crimes  where the punishment needs reappraising for the type and severity of offence.

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Permalink Reply by Phillip Watson on August 6, 2012 at 6:52pm

Dr Caroline Wright said:

Phillip you said that One day the "progressive" position is the one held by the majority, and change occurs. I go back to where the Greens Party fits here which I raised in Beverley's new topic "Capitalism or Socialism????" They are implementing great changes but certainly are not in the majority. What are your thoughts about this?

 

I don't think either pure capitalism or pure socialism works practically. Looking around the World, we can see that economies and people within countries that have moved too far one way or the other have suffered. I think Australia has a nice blend of capitalism and socialism.

I'm not a huge fan of the greens, however like all parties I think they have some policies/positions of merit. Carbon tax aside, are they implementing "great changes" that are not supported by the majority? Can you give me some examples? 

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Permalink Reply by Phillip Watson on August 6, 2012 at 7:18pm

Jan Courtney said:

It's very interesting that church attendances are dropping in the mainstream churches,  but many of the others (what some may refer to as happy clappers - no offence meant) are thriving.  Young people are going in droves,  I see them pouring into "Lifehouse" on Sundays.  I have also noticed though, that in my own (Catholic) parish,  baptisms are increasing , and where a couple of years ago we didn't seem to hear babies and toddlers in church, we now do. 

 

Are the statistics incorrect,  or are people finding an increasing  need to be in touch with their God ? 

Looking at the Census stats, the Pentecostal churches (eg Hillsong) are the only Christian denomination that are holding ground as a % of population. All of the others are declining.

While they do get huge numbers attending their "services", in my experience they are short-lived parishioners. They hang around for a few months, then fade away. There is a huge turnover.

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